Prophecy

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by Clive Campbell
09/01/22
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4. The Revelation Problem

Here is what Kurschner and White write in the script of their documentary:

There are several passages in the book of Revelation supporting the idea that the Church will face the Antichrist’s persecution just before the rapture, and that both the rapture and the Day of the Lord, will not begin until after the midpoint of the 7-year period. This is all, of course, contrary to the traditional Pretrib model which teaches that the rapture will occur before the 7-year period begins.

To begin with, they and other Pre-Wrathers make basically the same mistake with the book of Revelation that they make with the Olivet Discourse: they take it chronologically. To be fair, nearly everybody does. However, my view of Revelation is that it is not chronological prose, but more like poetry. I believe that there are 4-millennia stanzas that run through the book, covering the 4 millennia of Israel, 1970/69 BC to 2030/31 AD. I see similar stanzas in the Genesis prologue, in Psalms and elsewhere in the Bible. Perhaps they run right through the Bible. I wrote about this in 2007 in a paper titled, "The Hermeneutical Key to the Book of Revelation," which you can find on the internet by Googling the title in quotation marks. Since writing that paper, I would at least change 1 thing in it: I suggest 1850-80 as the date Satan was released from hell, after being bound there in 70 AD with the demons not active in the 120 years before Noah's 600th year. I now believe they were released in 1903/4, 120 years before the Resurrection/Rapture in 2023/24, also when Moses and Elijah descend to Jerusalem before the 6000th year in 2030/31.

Also, if you wish to see how this "key" interprets Revelation, I have commented on many of the chapters on this site. They are not in final polished form, but they will give you an idea how I see the mysterious apocalyptic book of Revelation. I will say this: there are about as many different views of Revelation as there are interpreters, so we must be somewhat careful about finding Resurrection/Rapture timing arguments from Revelation. There are many other passages that speak more clearly about this issue. I mention some of them in my article on this site, ARGUMENTS FOR THE RESURRECTION AND RAPTURE IN 2023. I should have written 2023/24.

Anyway, please allow me to cover the 2 main passages in Revelation that Kurschner and White argue confirm their Pre-Wrath Resurrection/Rapture view and not my Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture view. The first is found in Revelation 6:

The Fifth Seal—Martyrs

9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

The Pre-Wrathists argue that since breaking this fifth seal reveals Christian martyrs, crying out for justice, chronologically before the Resurrection/Rapture "out of the great tribulation" (Revelation 7:14), which they make the last 3 1/2 years, it means that Christians will go through at least the first 3 1/2 years when the Jewish Antichrist takes down 3 other rulers of a 10-nation empire, comes against Israel and somehow gains power, opposes with the Jewish False Prophet (Jewish High Priest?) Moses and Elijah, kills them, stops the daily burnt offerings and displays himself as God in the temple. But what if Revelation is not meant to be chronological but instead presents events of Israel's 4 millennia over and over again in sort of poetic stanzas? That is what I think is going on. Here is how I interpret the "fifth seal":

The Fifth Seal—Martyrs

9 When

The 3rd millennium, Israel's 1st millennium (1970/69 BC-970/69 BC): God can cover 1000 years with one word.

the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar

The 4th millennium, Israel's 2nd millennium (970/69 BC-30/31 AD): At the very end of which, Jesus, the Lamb of God, broke open the "seals" of the Old Testament to reveal Himself as the Messiah and John watched the fulfillment beneath the altar, the cross (see Hebrews 13:10 in its context).

the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;

The 5th millennium, Israel's 3rd millennium (30/31 AD-1030/31 AD): There were many Christian martyrs in this millennium, especially before 312 AD. Note that they are "souls" without bodies at this point.

10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

The 6th millennium, Israel's 4th millennium (1030/31 AD-2030/31 AD): At the end of this millennial "day," in the 20th century, there were more Christian martyrs than in all the 19 centuries before and at the very end of this millennium, the martyrs in heaven are crying out to God with a loud voice for justice (souls/spirits can still communicate). But note what happens next: to each of them was given a white robe. In my view, this means that the Resurrection/Rapture has occurred before the last 7 years and the Christian martyrs to that point have received their immortal bodies. Then they are told to wait a little while longer (7 years) while the number of martyrs is completed in the last 7 years.

So, in fact, I see the Resurrection/Rapture right here in chapter 6, as well as in chapter 7. Let's go now to the Pre-Wrathers' argument from that chapter. Here is the text:

A Multitude from the Tribulation

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,

“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying,

“Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16 They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

I won't go into how I think this passage breaks down into 4-millennia stanzas--you can see my commentary on chapter 7 if you wish--but I will focus on 2 words in verse 14: "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation." The Pre-Wrathers assert that this is the same great tribulation in the Olivet Discourse, mentioned after the Abomination of Desolation. They therefore call only the last 3 1/2 years the great tribulation. If they are correct, Revelation 7:14 does seem to have this multitude of resurrected and raptured saints coming "out of" these last 3 1/2 years of great tribulation. But are they correct? I think not. Let's jump back to the Matthew 24 text (NASB1995, bolding mine):

15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

As I wrote in my article rebutting the Olivet Discourse "problem," the Pre-Wrathists wrongly try to read the Olivet Discourse strictly chronologically, which then makes it seem that the Abomination of Desolation, which occurs at the midpoint of the last 7 years, happens before the Resurrection/Rapture. But as I pointed out in that article, the Therefore above comes after the end in verse 14 and is not a chronological word. Jesus is jumping back 3 1/2 years as verse 15 begins. Also, the word translated then, occurring twice in the section above, can have the sense of "after that," as in the first then above: when you see the Abomination, after that, flee. But it can also have the sense of "at that time," as in the second then above: when you see the Abomination, after that, flee, for at that time there will be a great tribulation. I believe that the 2nd usage is less specific in its chronology, more general as to the related time.

If I were to attempt to assign times to 3 of the periods mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24, I would do it this way:

1. The Beginning of Birth Pangs (verses 4-8): 70 AD (when the temple is torn down, verse 2, and Satan and the demons not active in Noah's day are bound in hell) to 1903/4 (when Satan and these demons are released from hell)

2. A Time of Tribulation/Suffering (verses 9-14): 1903/4 (when Satan and these demons are released from hell to "deceive the nations" and to "steal, kill and destroy") to 2023/24 (when Moses receives the "dead in Christ" and Elijah receives "those who are alive and remain" and then Moses and Elijah descend further to Jerusalem)

3. A Time of Great Tribulation/Suffering (verses 15-22): 2023/24 (when the Jewish Antichrist takes down Putin and 2 other rulers of the CIS and comes against Israel to make war) to 2030/31 (when King Jesus returns "in power and great glory" to "cut short" those days "for the sake of the elect."

I think Pre-Wrathers make a mistake when they make that 2nd then above, only apply to the last 3 1/2 years. After all, many Israelis are going to be killed in the 1st 3 1/2 years and perhaps many others as well. At least in Israel, people won't be able "to buy or sell" without the "mark of the Beast" and the Jewish Antichrist and the Jewish False Prophet (Jewish High Priest?) are going to be at "war" with Moses and Elijah and all who believe in their King Jesus. As well, the then in verse 23 introduces false Christs and false prophets again, which may include the false Christs from The Beginning of Birth Pangs section and/or the false prophets from the Time of Tribulation/Suffering. My point being: that then or at that time can relate to a very short time or to a very long time or something in between.

In summary, there is nothing in Revelation that opposes the Resurrection/Rapture happening 7 years before the end. In fact, in my view, the book supports it.

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