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Finally!

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:50 am
by PamDavis
I have not been able to log in all week. Scott helped me get back on. This is a great lesson, Jan. Back later....

Pam

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:50 am
by glorybee
To me, "Her dark brown, African American skin seemed to glow." feels awkward. But how to introduce a person's race into the storyline? If I just say dark brown skin, then she could be a person with a tan, or Spanish American, etc. But doing it like this also makes me edgy. Especially since the acceptable terms for describing a group of people tend to change every 5 years or so. So, if the novel were to get published, a term used in complimentary fashion when written can be re-interpreted years later to be a snub or worse.

Suggestions? How do good writers handle that type of thing?
That's a good question! It sounds awkward to me the way you've phrased it, too. I'd definitely leave out "African American", for the reasons you cite; it could make your story feel dated.

Have you read any of Lisa Samson's books? She frequently has characters of color (another phrase that may sound dated some day), and she establishes their ethnicity with a combination of factors--their dialect, their names, and physical description. She's an excellent writer--I highly recommend that you read some of her books and study her style of characterization.

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:15 am
by Bear-Bear
Use "dialect, names, and physical description" Got it!

No, I haven't read any of Samson's books. Bear walks in poverty and doesn't spend money on books, except for the most essential. I checked out Lisa's website, but none of her writing is posted there. (The web is where I get most my education and reading done.) :D

However, I think part of the problem is that I want readers to get an instant "photo type" picture of the character right from the start of the book. And from what you're saying, a more gradual opening of some of the character traits, as the story progresses, might be more effective.

Homework Dear Abby Revised

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:57 am
by PamDavis
Pushing back years of Nabal’s intimidation I resolve to change. Can’t even control himself! He won’t manipulate me anymore! My thoughts scatter with sand thrown by swiftly moving horses. Men are jostled as they approach our ranch. Strangers…. wonder who they are. Better move outa’sight. A meandering brook beckons to the carefree girl of my past. I raise my skirts high and skip upstream.

“Abby, were you listening?”

I turn to a herdsman and see death in his foreboding eyes.

“No, left when strangers got here. What’s wrong?”

“Your husband doesn’t have the sense to know that sharing with David’s men is no favor. His army will destroy us!”

Fear is vanquished. Boldness spurs me to action. A spirit of intoxicating purpose rushes through my veins.

“With God’s help we’ll stop David before he takes revenge! Hurry, gather provisions! I’ll deliver them and beg for mercy! ”


I have no specific ideas for coming lessons. Each week they seem to be just what I need. Your info about not including ages really frees me in my fictional book I'm working on.

Pam

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:14 am
by glorybee
Ruth, what about your public library, or your church library (or if your church doesn't have one, the library of any large church in your town)?

At any rate--the race of your characters can be established early, no matter what technique you use. In fact, if the character's race is significant in some way to the plot, it SHOULD be established early; it's disorienting for readers to have to mentally revise their picture of a character, especially if it's a major revision.

I just checked a few instances of character description in my brother's book, Thin Blue Smoke, which has a multi-racial cast of characters. Here is how he introduced 3 of his characters:

1. It was an unlikely friendship. Delbert Douglass Mersier III was a black man whose father had moved his family from Louisiana to Texas...

2. Behind the bar was a young black woman. When she heard Ferguson come in, she turned toward the door. Ferguson saw that she was about his age and that her skin was the deep, brown-red color of the cherries he loved back home...

3. ...a tall, skinny black man with a graying Afro stepped up to the cash register...

He used "black" in all of those descriptions--I'm not sure if that will sound dated in another decade or not.

I'd love to hear from any people of color who may be here on the boards. Thoughts?

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:19 am
by Verna
Jan, I'm so glad you're back with your enlightening lessons for beginners and seasoned writers alike. I found an example from my writing to illustrate how to do this incorrectly. :)

Monster under the Bed

“Mommy, Mommy, I’m scared!”

Lynn climbed through a fog of deep sleep to see four-year-old Michael standing by her bed. The moonlight filtered through the blinds to turn his blond hair into a golden crown and the tears on his cheeks into crystal drops.

...Later in the story, when his little feet pad beside her big ones, and he sits on her lap, the reader can figure out he's not a teen, if he or she hadn't already picked that out from the title and the first line :)

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:21 am
by glorybee
Pam, your snippet definitely made me want to read more! Your Abby is definitely an intriguing, complex character.

My only problem with your little story was the setting--it seems to be based on the Biblical story in 1 Samuel, but words like ranch, skirts, outta, and Abby made me think of the old West.

If it's part of a larger work that intentionally sets that story in another setting--great! What a cool idea! Otherwise, you might want to be careful with dialect and vocabulary that are wrong for the setting.

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:24 am
by glorybee
Verna, thanks for being willing to post that example. It's exactly what I meant! (And just think--if you'd taken "four-year-old" out of that sentence, you'd have gained three whole words!)

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:27 am
by Verna
Ahh, Jan, with my short metrical feet, I don't need more words. I'm already the "sole of brevity." :)

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 pm
by Bear-Bear
glorybee wrote:Ruth, what about your public library, or your church library (or if your church doesn't have one, the library of any large church in your town)?
:!: Libraries! I had forgotten about libraries, I've so gotten into the habit of finding things on the Net. I've written "Samson" down on my next town list, to check into it.
glorybee wrote:1. It was an unlikely friendship. Delbert Douglass Mersier III was a black man whose father had moved his family from Louisiana to Texas...

2. Behind the bar was a young black woman. When she heard Ferguson come in, she turned toward the door. Ferguson saw that she was about his age and that her skin was the deep, brown-red color of the cherries he loved back home...

3. ...a tall, skinny black man with a graying Afro stepped up to the cash register...

He used "black" in all of those descriptions--I'm not sure if that will sound dated in another decade or not.


That definitely sounds better than my "African American" in all cases. And I'm beginning to suspect that it's best just to use the current best-term, as your brother did, and let future readers make whatever mental adjustments they need to, to reconcile that. They'll know what year the book was written.

However, I'm even having trouble making that work in this particular instance. I tried "black youth", but that doesn't work in the same smooth way that "black woman" and "black man", (both currently common terms of reference), ... Nor does "black teen", or "black girl".
A black youth, Wanda's dark brown skin seemed to glow with enthusiasm. She bounded over to the bottom of the ladder, looking up at Dan, eyes full of joy. During volleyball season last term, she'd been fighting a shin injury the doctor couldn't diagnose.
When Bear gets stuck over stuff like this, she wonders why she ever wanted to try and be a writer in the first place. It seems like this shouldn't be that hard to figure out. :roll:

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:14 pm
by glorybee
Ruth, I think you could just open with "Wanda's dark brown skin..." That's pretty definitive--she could possibly be from India or a few other places, but most people will take the more obvious road. If you think there may be doubt, bring it up in a few other ways as the story unfolds.

New Character

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:28 pm
by flyingcross
Hi Jan,

My sister loves Jan Karon, and I'll have to say, there are some wonderful characters in them.

My new character.

Her glassy eyes took in nothing of the television that blared in front of her. This was her life, her choice, to drink to survive the onslaught of anxiety. It had brought her to this couch, this room, where no one else wanted to be. All she wanted was to be loved, and the only way she’d found it was by drinking. It just never ended up being love. Her slurred speech as she answered the phone told her daughter all she needed to know.
“Mom, I love you. Let me know when you’d like to come out. We’ve got a room for you whenever you decide to come.”
She hung up the phone, crying. She wanted to go, but she couldn’t go without a drink now. She had lost her family even though they wanted her as badly as she wanted them.

Thanks,
Cindy

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:49 pm
by Bear-Bear
OK. Thanks, Jan! :D

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:07 am
by FreedomWriter
Now, I am left wondering. I was just getting used to "Joey said."
Now, he is stashing a frog in his overalls.
Of the two, which one is better?

Wild-eyed John

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:25 am
by OldManRivers
I had named him, Wild-Eyed John. To be honest, this grizzly, grey-bearded man of the streets never would tell me his name. Wild-eyed John was too busy preaching his hell-singed sermons to be answering the inane questions of folks like me.

“Are ya rightch with Jeeez-sus, young feller?”

John would fire those words at me with a holy fire, but his voice was not nearly as frightening as those piercing blue eyes that peered deep into your soul. Everyday I would nod; some days I would smile; once in awhile I would shout back an amen. And when I had the gumption to offer that nervous Amen, Wild-eyed John would echo back my “Amen” then turn his attention to another white-collared sinner on his way to work.

To be sure, John was a priest of the city streets, somewhat tattered but surely faded. Most of the street folks become invisible after a few days, but not Wild-eyed John. With his well-worn Gideon Bible clutched into his second-hand black suit and with his passion burning in his heart, this old, whiskey-ed warrior worked this parcel of concrete covered earth and worked it everyday until the day Wild-Eyed John showed up no more.